I've connected the dots...?

[fitia]

Finished the Namek Arc yesterday! I have... many thoughts on Vegeta, and honestly on how Toriyama's been writing villains so far in general:

• There's never been much depth in the actual character- or thematic-writing in Dragon Ball, and the conflict is about as black-and-white and protagonist-centred as it gets. Given that it's primarily a story about martial arts and self-improvement, the story pulls its conception of virtue from there, and "good" means humility, means discipline, means understanding that there's always room to be better than you are and that there will always be others that are better than you; which means that as a counterpart to all that, the villains are caricatures of arrogance, egoism and cowardice. The protagonists are earnestly emotionally attached to one another, the villains team up for convenience and eventual personal gain, or else they rule over people they mean to control.


• I mention all that because this is how Vegeta is consistently written throughout the arc: there were many opportunities to soften him a bit in the eyes of the audience, give him a drive that reads more human and emotionally vulnerable in a way that evokes sympathy, but he sidesteps them over and over! The destruction of his planet isn't a tragedy to him, he never develops any sense of conscience when he's forced to work with our heroes, he's a self-interested megalomaniac obsessed with power to the bitter end. You have to wonder if Toriyama wrote him that way so he wouldn't do a complete repeat of Piccolo's character arc and have some distinction between his recurring characters.

• Despite all this I'm still very compelled, because aside from being an unkillable dick whose purpose is to cause enough problems to drive the plot along, Vegeta's most consistent traits in this arc are his desire to see Freeza killed, and his insistence that a saiyan should be the one to do it.

Obviously Vegeta takes pride in the fact that he's a saiyan, and in the fact that the saiyans were destroyed because Freeza feared something in them, but there's nothing especially... communal about it. It's as if his relationship to his race is divorced from an actual relationship to his race: he doesn't grieve them, he was completely fine with letting Raditz die and killing Nappa off himself, there's no recognizable sympathetic attachment in Vegeta's relationship to the saiyans, and yet he brings it up constantly, he clearly has a strong relationship to them that he makes it his entire identity, and convinces Goku that Freeza should be killed by a saiyan as he dies.

The explanation the manga gives for why Vegeta's really upset over Freeza is that it's a matter of pride, and that he hated having to be used his entire life. He's clearly of the belief that the saiyans should be the strongest in the universe, and as someone at the top of their defunct hierarchy, that he should be their representative. Which is interesting to think about on the psychological level: the saiyans as a representation of superiority and strength is ingrained in him, regardless of their actual position in the universe or in Freeza's empire of space real estate, and he identifies so strongly with the superior position he was born into that he's insanely possessive over the saiyan identity itself.

Vegeta's whole thing is not just that he's a saiyan: he's the saiyan. Which is why Goku reaching anywhere close to his level is so deeply offensive to him (his whole train of thought in the Namek Arc is that Goku's still a lower class amateur, lmfao), and only something he manages to get over when he's dying.

Though I also think it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume he's lying a bit about how unaffected he is over losing his entire planet and community, seeing as that at his most vulnerable he does insist strongly on it being avenged. How does that square with his treatment of Raditz, Nappa and Goku though? Well, you got me there. No wonder Toriyama said Vegeta was his least favourite character, he really had no idea what to do with him until the Buu Saga, did he.


• Another thing that makes this all a bit weird is the unfortunate fact that DBZ logic is very race sciencey as a whole. The saiyans were clearly originally written as an "evil race", so much that even in installments far off in the future, the most that can be done with them is to mention that "pure-hearted" saiyans are a rare occurrence. Even in Goku's battle with Freeza, a battle in which half of Goku's motivation is to avenge Freeza's destruction of his home planet, this exchange happens:

Freeza: Awfully noble, aren't you...? Are you saying the saiyans never killed an innocent?

Goku: They died because of it.


(Chapter 124)



With the obvious implication that an entire race did, at the end of the day, deserve to die off, which... lol. See the above on how DBZ doesn't actually give moral questions depth. It's very difficult to retroactively make the saiyans sympathetic, because at the end of the day, they are written as inherently bloodthirsty conquerors who existed in an inescapable power caste system and had no issue getting rid of their own if they stepped out of line. Not the most considered writing decision, I'm not gonna lie!

 

Anyways. I'm taking a break from reading the manga because while I'm excited to get to the Android and Cell Arcs, I do know this story by heart at this point and want to read some new things first. But, all of the above has made me interested in revisiting Vegeta's relationship with Trunks, seeing as that Trunks represents a bit of a genre shift in the series-- or at least, his story and background feel a bit out of place in the martial arts and constant self-improvement manga. In contrast to his father, he's a character whose tragedy actually is of grief, and he experiences actually human and sympathetic emotions over his whole world being destroyed. It's interesting that it's for this kid that Vegeta actually stops thinking about himself for once for the very first time.

Comments

[wavesagainstrocks]

Oh gosh, first: Hello! I found this on the Latest Things page and ran to your profile. This was such a great read!!

DB has been a huge interest of mine since I was a kid, and I very rarely ever see such thoughtful analysis about it (not that it doesn't exist, it's just hard to find amongst the "simplicity" of it)! Despite my love and need for picking apart my favorite pieces of media, I've kind of... avoided, doing it for DB a lot of the time 'cause sometimes the choices Toriyama made throws me for a loop LOL.

The destruction of his planet isn't a tragedy to him, he never develops any sense of conscience when he's forced to work with our heroes, he's a self-interested megalomaniac obsessed with power to the bitter end. You have to wonder if Toriyama wrote him that way so he wouldn't do a complete repeat of Piccolo's character arc and have some distinction between his recurring characters.

I never thought about it like that... I love Vegeta and Piccolo, but each (in my mind) for two completely different reasons. They do share a lot of similarities, don't they?

Though I also think it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume he's lying a bit about how unaffected he is over losing his entire planet and community, seeing as that at his most vulnerable he does insist strongly on it being avenged. How does that square with his treatment of Raditz, Nappa and Goku though? Well, you got me there. No wonder Toriyama said Vegeta was his least favourite character, he really had no idea what to do with him until the Buu Saga, did he.

This is where things start throwing me for a loop XD! The discussions I've seen surrounding Vegeta and Goku specifically are almost always never agreed upon. Which! I think is fun when you want to come to your own interpretations of them and their reasons for doing the things they do. But... it can get a little frustrating because Toriyama gives us both so little to work with AND too much room to work with.

I'm of the belief that Vegeta is definitely hiding how much the destruction of his planet affects him. His identity as the saiyan is all he had left at the end of the day while he was being used by Freeza. He's bitter, he's grieving what could've been... and then he's sort of whiplashed into the reality that he couldn't have had Freeza killed on his own. The author just might really enjoy the 'uses anger to hide how they truly feel' trope?

With the obvious implication that an entire race did, at the end of the day, deserve to die off, which... lol. See the above on how DBZ doesn't actually give moral questions depth. It's very difficult to retroactively make the saiyans sympathetic, because at the end of the day, they are written as inherently bloodthirsty conquerors who existed in an inescapable power caste system and had no issue getting rid of their own if they stepped out of line. Not the most considered writing decision, I'm not gonna lie!

THIS. I feel so much frustration with this that I sometimes wonder... is it unwarranted? But no, you get it! I could definitely be misremembering the context and events, it's been a longgg time since I've watched any installments post-DBZ. But I think in Resurrection F(?) Freeza (for the millionth time) is back and Goku and Vegeta take to fighting him. And like... the way they handled a "do-over" for Vegeta vs Freeza annoyed me SO bad. It was so awful from what I can remember and I now have such a disdain for when Freeza's brought up/back because they never do anything remotely impactful with it!

All that only gets more messy with their flip-flopping of 'can saiyans be inherently pure of heart or do they have to be forced into it'... Smoke is coming out of my ears.

Anyways, I'm so sorry for the ramble, haha! I just enjoyed reading your thoughts so much!! I'd totally love to see more from you :D

[fitia]

Omg hi!! DB has also been one of my favourite series of all time since I've been a kid, and it's been super fun to revisit it. And I'm flattered that you liked reading my thoughts on it, haha, I did write this mostly talking to myself.

The author just might really enjoy the 'uses anger to hide how they truly feel' trope?

It's very likely! Though my own difficulty with it, like I mentioned, is how much Vegeta is inevitably written as the Worst Guy Ever for the most part, and Toriyama seemed to have trouble making him sympathetic alongside it at first. Honestly, it's a question of writing weirdness, but I also enjoy the process of making things deeper than need be so I'm open to any conclusion that paints Vegeta in a more sympathetic light!

But I think in Resurrection F(?) Freeza (for the millionth time) is back and Goku and Vegeta take to fighting him. And like... the way they handled a "do-over" for Vegeta vs Freeza annoyed me SO bad. It was so awful from what I can remember and I now have such a disdain for when Freeza's brought up/back because they never do anything remotely impactful with it!

I so hear you!! It's really sad that he keeps getting brought back as pure fanservice, despite the fact that he did, at first, have a clear narrative role and a compelling storyline in relation to Goku and Vegeta... and seeing as that Resurrection F takes place after Vegeta's had a proper redemption arc, there could've definitely been a more emotional note to him beating Freeza! That movie was a mess for multiple reasons, but I still remember being really disappointed on that end in particular.

All that only gets more messy with their flip-flopping of 'can saiyans be inherently pure of heart or do they have to be forced into it'... Smoke is coming out of my ears.

I knowwww right. RIP Toriyama, maybe you should've thought the evil race thing through before making the saiyans the heart of your sequel franchise.

And don't apologize for rambling, I LOVE nerding out with other people! It was fun to wake up to this, I'm really glad there are others still enthusiastic enough about Dragon Ball to want to discuss it!